SARA BANNERMAN: Okay I'd like to start off our next session, apologies for being a few
minutes late. I want to introduce Monique Manatch, who's a member of the Algonquins of Barrier Lake
and a knowledge keeper who's working closely with elder Albert Dumont and is a doctoral student at Carelton University.
Monique is going to lead our next panel - to chair our next panel called Indigenous Media and Cultural Policy.
And she'll introduce the presenters on the panel, and I want to thank Monique for putting this wonderful panel
together that's going to be, I think, really interesting and I think we'll all learn a lot.
So Monique, thank you so much, and looking forward to all of your presentations.
MONIQUE MANATCH: Meegwetch, thanks Sara.
(inaudible)
Welcome, I am on, I'm virtual today from unseated unsurrendered Algonquin territory. (Algonquin) Algonquins from Barrier Lake and (inaudible).
My name is Monique Manatch I'm a member of the Algonquins of Barrier Lake. Today we're going to be speaking with
Dan and Mary Lou Smoke with Gwen Phillips, with Rob McMahon and with Jesse Wente.
And we're going to begin with Dan and Mary Lou Smoke, who have been in community radio and within Indigenous media for
40 years?
DAN AND MARY LOU SMOKE: 31. Yeah. MONIQUE: Wow.
MONIQUE MANATCH: And you have the longest running community radio program in Canada.
DAN SMOKE: Indigenous. Indigenous, yes, yes.
MONIQUE MANATCH: Smoke signals out of Western.
MARY LOU SMOKE: Yes, yes, sending smoke signals your way.
MONIQUE MANATCH: But i'd like to start the conversation with you.
if you could, you know talk to us for a few minutes about, you know, your thoughts on the digital Indigenous sector,
and your experiences, your many and varied experiences.
DAN AND MARY LOU SMOKE: Okay well my elders taught me that when we're speaking, that we always say who,
what our spirit name is, what our clan is, and where we come from and every time we do a radio show we always introduce ourselves this way.
So we always greet one another as you greeted us, but we say in my way, my Anishinaabe way, we say
Boozhoo. So, boozhoo
Boozhoo.
(Anishinaabe). So I just shared my spirit name with you, and that is Shooting Star Woman.
I'm Bear Clan, I originally come from Batchawana Bay, Ontario. But most people around here know me as Mary Lou Smoke.
So Dan and I started in radio 31 years ago.
We had, we started at the same station where we're at now, CHRW. And I think we had 50 Watts back then, yes 50 Watts,
so we didn't have, like we're located in London Ontario, Dan and I moved here in 1977 from Toronto,
and we started the radio show in the 90s.
And so, the very first thing when we were offered to show, like what was happening at the time was what they called
The Oka Crisis, and the only reason why they call it The Oka Crisis was because
The reporters couldn't pronounce Kanesatake, so the Oka cheese factory was just down the road, so they said oh it's the Oka crisis.
So, all the reporters were writing their reports by news bulletins by the police and that the same thing happened here in Ipperwash.
So, a fellow at the CHRW who had a radio program called Green Waves, and he approached Dan and I and asked us if we would come on the air
and give an Indigenous point of view of what was happening. So well, we both looked at each other with big eyes,
you know, cuz like, somebody wants to know what we want to say? You know we have to say?
So the very first thing we did was we went on air and then we had lota of information like we brought in our most of stuff to read and
At that time, email was fairly new, but I was still able to print off a lot of stuff and then I started this one format called
Community Announcements, so I would announce all the powows, and you know, events happening in the city and surrounding area.
And so after like our little 10 minutes time on Green Wave's radio hosted by Jeremy Price,
we did this for about six weeks, then the station manager Mario Circelli
offered us a one hour radio show and that's when we said, well, I don't know we better get some permission
because we're permission-seeking people and so we went to our elders and we told them, you tknow, that this is happening,
we have this opportunity to share and we don't know if we should do it, you know because we don't want to be attacked by our own people,
which happens a lot, you know, because people are always saying well who do they think they are, you know.
So anyway, the elders you know said wholeheartedly, go ahead with it. We went to a Sweat Lodge and we had a Sweat Lodge Ceremony,
just for the purpose of going forward with radio.
And our elder Art Solomon said "You take every opportunity you can to talk about the goodness of the Indian people". Back then,
nobody was saying, Indigenous or Aboriginal, we were saying we're Indian, so. So we did that and I learned how to run the board.
So I don't know if you've ever - a lot of people sitting in the audience probably never seen a control board but there's like 100 little dials
on there, so you have to learn how to run and click and function, you know slide the thing up, the slider, the thing, I don't know all the
technology either you know. But I had all these notes that I'm you know I put this is for the CD, this is for the cassette,
This is, you know I had this once, make sure you turn Dan on because a lot of times I forget to do that.
And somebody called up saying we can't hear Dan very good, you know, so it was a real learning process because we never
went to school for this, you know it was it just came our way, and so we took it.
And so after about two or three months the station manager Mario Circelli he offered us a two hour radio show
because he's seen we had all this information to share, you know, we had this - for thousands of years, our people had this knowledge and
nobody told it, nobody shared it, you know so when there was gatherings happening, elders conferences,
powows, anything Indigenous was happening, Dan and I had this little tape recorder, we would travel we hitch a ride with somebody, or
we'd take the train or go by Greyhound, but we would get there, and we would tape record whoever was speaking,
bring it back to the radio show and then share it with all the LOndoners and people who could listen
you know from Woodstock and beyond, and then after a little while we got 75 Watts and we could be reached in Guelph.
So once the Internet came and Dan and I started travelling beyond just this area,
we ended up like going down the states, we went to Europe a couple times, down to Thailand, so we have people who listen
from all around the world now because of the Internet.
And so it's really been fascinating the changes that have been happening, and you know we haven't really learned all the
new things that are happening out there in a world but we know enough to get by.
DAN SMOKE: Okay, I just like to say chi-miigwech Mary Lou, (algonquin).
My spirit name is Star In Flight, I'm a member of the Seneca Nation and I'm a member of the Kildeer clan,
and I come from Six Nations Grand River Territory. My father was born down on-
He's actually Cayuga from the Turtle Clan, but I was born down on the Onondaga reservation, Syracuse New York.
Anyways I would just like to say I'm very grateful to
Sara and to Monique for this opportunity to share at this conference, and I believe that we are in good company, so I want to say
Boozhoo, (Haudenosaunee), where I come from, we say (Haudenosaunee) to all of our fellow presenters
and they just want to say in relation to what Mary Lou is talking about yes we
we were presented this opportunity to share on the radio and it was very fortunate to us that it was in the the oral tradition.
Our people are an oral tradition, we share orally from generation to generation,
wisdom, knowledge, and it's passed on and passed on from generation to generation, we have been very fortunate that we have been the
beneficiaries of -
In the Haudenosaunee tradition, my grandmother was a was a Kildeer Seneca nation clan mother,
and my grandfather was a Seneca Dear clan hereditary chief, so they're both very important in the Onondaga longhouse
which they were lifetime members. And my family have -
There's a lineage of membership in the Onondaga Longhouse on Six Nations. One of their helpers was was a hereditary chief who is quite
well known by the name of Chief Jake Thomas. He was Cayuga nation, he was Sandpiper clan, so he was
a member of the - that's the same bird family as to Kildeer, so he was like an uncle to me but,
I met him because he was a runner for my grandparents, and he would drive them around, so I got to meet him
and I didn't know that he was such a well respected, well regarded knowledge carrier,
but he knew all the six languages of the Haudenosaunee language family, and he knew the ceremonies,
and he knew the recitals, the addresses that are said, whenever we do a ceremony - he knew the actual speech that goes with it.
And he would talk about that to my grandparents, because they would help him in passing on some of their knowledge and wisdom to him.
And I was just a young guy, I was like 7/8 years old, 9 years old, and I would be just tagging along and because I wanted
I liked spending time with my grandparents, they are my favorite memories on the Six Nations Reserve. And they would go off
to various little cultural events where there was a group of dancers,
there would be some food, there would be some speakers and,
and then there would be my grandmother selling crafts, because my grandfather was a good crafts person.
And my grandfather would be a singer so he would sing and the dancers would dance so, then I got recruited
into becoming a dancer, even though it was against my wishes.
My grandmother insisted that I learned how to dance, so I started dancing. And Jake Thomas sometimes came and so he's witness
that I was, I was just a young guy who was trying to learn how to dance
my Haudenoshonee style of dance, even though I didn't really want to do that. But because I was kind of thrust onto the stage I
kind of picked up on it, I kind of enjoyed it, I thought it was good. Anyways I started learning a little bit about the knowledge of our people.
I started - I didn't learn the language, because my my parents even though they knew the language, sometimes spoken between them
they never shared it to us because of what they went through with the residential school.
We had the the Mohawk Institute, which was a residential school located rightin Branford, and my father went there, and my mother didn't
because she was taken away from Six Nations and grew up in in Nuffalo, New York.
And so they met when my father ended up in a hospital in Buffalo and she was a nurse, she was working as a nurse.
Anyways they met and my father was a well known, well regarded ironworker, so he was a welder and he went where the work was.
So we traveled around, our small little family. It was four kids and my grandma and my parents so we've got to travel around. Anyways
I got into the -
Learning about our knowledge, learning about our traditions from Six Nations which, which was a great hotspot for that.
We have the Six Nations pageant where they they put on plays. And they did it in an outdoor theatre, Forest Theatre they called it,
and that was that was very even learning for me, because my mother would go and be an actress in the Forest Theater,
And sometimes I came along as an extra, as one of the little kids. So I got to learn how to do that, and this was at a time in the early 60s and,
I was starting to learn some of the stories of our people, you know, I learned about Red Jacket, I learned about Pauline Johnson.
In fact, we lived at the Pauloine Johnson homestead on the Six Nations reserve
where my mother was the curator, caretaker for 10 years it was her first job that she got what she went home to Six Nations,
and that was the job that she took and she was accepted to do. So, collectively as a family, we all helped out running the Pauline Johnson
homestead known as Chiefswood.
And it was a home that was very - it was constructed out of walnut, great home very solid, still standing very solid still, but one door faced
Six Nations reserve and the other door faced Britain
because Pauline Johnson's mother was British, and her father was a hereditary chief of the Mohawk people, and so they recognized both
backgrounds, and they grew up with the influences of both backgrounds. So it was very interesting to learn about Pauline johnson's home, homelife
her growing up years and then she became a performance artist on the Tekahionwake circuit reciting her poetry.
And she became famous, and she ended up in Vancouver but after she had gained some fame, and she had she traveled across to all the
different departments theaters across Canada, and she ended up retiring in Vancouver.
And so I was always very enamored of the stories about Pauline Johnson and the rest of her family and her parents. So, but it wasn't until -
but at the same time, I was also very self conscious about that too, because when I was reading the history books, I was reading about how
we weren't seen and regarded as being very
honorable people. We were looked upon as savages, we were looked upon as pagan. So it wasn't until I started to go out and learn for myself
and see with my own eyes how beautiful our people were, you know, like, I regard my grandparents as two of the most beautiful human beings.
They didn't drink, they went to long house, they had a very simple lifestyle, but they enjoyed life. And so that made me very happy
because they're very happy peaceful people but -
So, but still that influence of negative stereotypes, negative media bias, really affected me and it affected my self esteem.
It affected my self-worth. And I had a very much an inferiority complex, and I sometimes I wished I wasn't Indian you know I wish I wasn't
Haudenoshanee Seneca, and so I kind of grew up with that kind of mixed feeling, but it wasn't until I actually started to get an education,
my mother always instilled in me that you need to get an education and she never told me about how education is our Buffalo.
But I read about it, many years later, but then I recognize, you know Buffalo was the way of life and upon which the people out West
lived upon for their survival. And so education was something that we regarded in the same way, and so I thought that I better get
a good education so I proceeded to do that.
I ended up going to a boys school called St.Andrews College just north of Toronto in a place called Aurora.
And I went there for my high school grades 11-13, and then from there, went to University down in Lenni-Lenape territory in New Jersey.
An Ivy League school called Princeton, and I went there. Class of '77. And then from there, I came back to Toronto.
And that's when I met up, I met up with Mary Lou and we began a family and we've been together ever since, and we've always decided that-
Well, Mary Lou kind of decided for us that everything that was going to transpire in our life, we would have to face it head on together.
Together, we would do everything together. And that worked for me, because I remembered my grandparents, and they did everything together.
So in that kind of tradition, I thought well geez I'm going to do this with Mary Lou. And I really
enjoyed that because Mary Lou at that time was a singe,r entertainer, performer, with a guitar and she's saying
in Toronto, that all the different native venues whenever there was a conference and they needed entertainment,
well, the Association for the Native Development that Visual Performing Arts Jim Buller, would call up Mary Lou.
And task her to come and sing at such and such a venue for this group of people. And so Mary Lou would come and so every now and then I'd see
this beautiful woman playing her guitar and I thought jeez I'd like to meet her someday. Well, that opportunity happened one time when
I was in the Silver Dollar Tavern and a friend of mine in the Silver Dollar Tavern that I worked with her name was Diane Longboat,
asked me to come over to our table and she said, I want you to meet a friend of mine, Dan this is Mary Lou. Mary Lou (inaudible), Dan Smoke
And so I got to meet Mary Lou and I remember seeing her on the stage of Silver Dollar on a couple of occasions and what a beautiful woman,
So gorgeous and what a voice, you know the way she sings you know, like, it really captivated me. So I was so happy to meet her
and right away, we started flirting, and it was almost like we were old friends who became reacquainted later in life
and we just joined up and started to walk together into the future. And so yeah as Mary Lou said in 1990 we were
offered this opportunity to get into radio, which we took. It was a two hour program that we started for, for I would say the first
15 years we recorded everything. We were told never leave home without yoour recorder, your tape recorder, and a friend gave us a really
good Sony tape recorder, so we used that and that was our - I think we got about 2000 cassettes, you know, different lengths cassettes,
but that's how much we accumulated.
Then when our station became digitized, everything went digital, and analog was phased right out and we got into CDs and we got into
USB ports. Mary Lou always was at the controls, she allowed me to be kind of like our voice, but oftentimes I would engage Mary Lou
in banter, radio banter, and we would talk about our life, and I think our listeners liked hearing and eavesdropping in on some of our stories
of our life together, and how we saw life, and how we saw life to our eyes.
That was very engaging for the public to eavesdrop in on. It was like we were just sitting across the coffee table and just talking
and just sharing, but then we had a lot of stories to report, we also did a lot of traditional teachings, and we also did a lot of
oral history of wampum belts, art, Mary Lou comes to a place where they had a lot of petroglyphs up in,
around Lake Superior, so you had all that art on the rocks you guys kind of discovered all these paintings on the rocks and you would,
she would tell me about some of the paintings that she saw, so anyways radio became our full tiem pastime,
MARY LOU SMOKE: But it also led to other things, we got asked to start teaching at Universities, so we taught a course-
DAN SMOKE: Well we did the TV first.
MARY LOU SMOKE: Oh yeah we got asked to speak on TV on Friday nights. We did a commentary on the news, you know, so that was pretty scary.
I don't know if any of you remember, there used to be a commercial about country cornflakes,
where this man and woman were standing in front there, and they're holding their cornflakes, their pitchforks and their eyes were just really
big and they're saying, please buy our cornflakes and that's what Dan and I looked like our first time that we were aired on TV.
And about six months later, we took a tape of that first one and a current one that was six months later,
and we took it down to NAJA - Native American Journalists Association - and they did a critique and they could not believe the difference. You know,
how relaxed we were and how our presentation had improved. And so we did that for 20 years, we had a contract with it was CHUM, CityTV,
CTV, the station went through different names - yeah owners and so we retired from that in 2018. In 2006, we got asked to teach
a course at the journalism school here in London. So we taught about representation of First Nations in the media.
And then we started teaching about Indigenous spirituality, focusing on the Anishinaabe, which I am mostly, and Dan with the Iroquois.
So, two years ago, we got approached by FIMS, the Faculty of Information Studies, we were leaving our office,
that we'd had since the 90s, since we started the radio show, and so somebody saw some cassettes that we discarded
and they said "Oh, this is a shame, you know, like these should be preserved".
So, it went from one person to another and then they contacted us and I brought all the cassettes home, so the one that I left behind,
was the duplicate and so they contacted us and they said that they would like to take our music and preserve it
and get it digitalized. So they have done that, they got a grant, and so all that music has been transferred over.
Dan: Interviews, panel discussions, keynote speeches, etc.
Mary Lou: All these teachings.
You know, a lot of those elders have gone now, so that's all been preserved and so there's going to be just one room at
the Faculty of Information Studies, where Indigenous students can go in and do research, and have access to those recordings
Dan: And it's going to be virtual
Mary Lou: It's going to be virtual, and they're hiring Indigenous students like for the summer to go in there and transcribe everything
so that it'll also be available on print.
Dan: Well no it's all going to be digital. Mary Lou: All digital, yeah.
MONIQUE MANATCH: Yeah, well that's fantastic, you guys have had such a life, such an amazing career and contributions to Indigenous media it's
absolutely wonderful.
Dan: And we met all you people along the way. Mary Lou: Yeah!
MONIQUE: We're the fortuante ones.
Well thank you, chi-miigwech, thank you so much
for sharing with us and yeah I look forward to more conversation with you.
I'm gonna go to Gwen next, and gwen can you maybe introduce yourself a bit and and tell us more about what you do.
GWEN PHILLIPS: Most scertainly, and I thank you very much for those stories I don't think I've had the privilege of meeting you,
but it sounds like we might have been doing some similar work at a similar time. I was the former Chair of the BC First Nations
Communication Society way back when.
And we ran radio operations and print operations and did a similar thing and looking to 'don't leave home without that device'
and moving from - I've got myself personal records of digital wax recording, or the wax recordings, digital reproductions of wax recordings.
Dan: Wow!
GWEN PHILLIPS: My great grandfather in Ottawa in the 1960s basically declaring sovereignty and
they also recorded them singing a number of songs, so I'm very fortunate to have that archival material saved for us so,
absolutely. (speaking Ktunaxa)
So I am Gwen Phillips, Red Arrow Woman, from the Ktunaxa Nation in the southeast corner province of British Columbia, we're also in
Northern Montana and Idaho.
We were buffalo hunters but were primarily living in the mountain regions, just in the side of British Columbia down into Montana and Idaho as i've mentioned.
And I've worked for my nation for over 40 years and primarily for the past 20,
supporting governance transformation and transition and really, that is - and I apologize that I'm looking both sort of here and here,
this is my big screen over here, but the little camera is over here so just apologies, you're going to get my better side, I think.
And I've been in that work for my nation, for the past 20 years, approximately, in governance also looking to assert data sovereignty,
because data sovereignty is really a
leading act of self-determination. I also am a, what's known as a, BC First Nations data governance initiative champion, I have
been doing that work for my nation, been recognized for it, and was asked to sit on the First Nations information governance Center board
a national institution that is.
Moving a vision forward that each nation achieves data sovereignty within their own worldview. That institution has been in existence
for 10 years but it's only been with the fast five or so years that we've really shifted our focus to really look at the the needs of the nation's.
I also co-chair a national working group with Indigenous services Canada and Indigenous people from across Canada
that are doing planning and community development work inside their own communities. And we see this really as an opportunity
to move forward and bring voice back to our people, where we've really had
not much voice, with the exception of brilliant people like yourselves - the Smokes.
So we understand that the day we're in right now with media convergence is you know, providing easier access to information
on things that we want and perhaps need.
But it's also providing information on things we don't want and don't need and it's almost more difficult for me to find my way through
to the things I need anymore, with the things that are going on and tracking and promoting and getting in your way with all
these delivered messages that we're not asking for. And while technology's made our lives easier it's also caused a lot of damage as we look at
missing information, lack of information, too much information, inappropriate information, misleading information, and what we know as
fake news.
And the number of digital devices that people are using in their homes now to actually get access to this media, which is really feeding
this thing that we've lost inside of us, this this this sense of
feeling good, it's trying to feed that for us, and the amount of these devices that we've got going on in our homes now
we don't even know what that electromagnetic energy is doing to us.
And how fragile our systems are as humans and the dependency and we are electromagnetic beings, the synchronization of all beings
with the energies of the Earth and Moon asnd stars it's direct.
And it's deep, and we don't understand what these things we're doing are doing to ourselves right now.
I recently participated in a BC office of the Human Rights Commissioners project on looking at a research project on this aggregated data
and I suggested in that research project that the move of government and of society really is
getting a little scary to me and I, you know, broaden the thought about Big Brother back in a day and I've got four big brothers
and I've been -- by them over the years, believe me.
And I thought about the concept of bringing grandmother into the room because, just as you said, grandmother's are so important,
and in my world my two grandmothers were the most important people to me.
And I suggested that the use of data should be thought of from my grandmother's perspective that we should be using it in ways
in which - care. Bring care back into the conversation. And the government of Canada, those that do to us, for us, with us, sometimes.
We see them, like all organizations, building capacity to use data in ways that we didn't know were possible before
linking data sets etc. And a few years back, I got a little bit (harsh intake of breath)
when I saw a memo that indicated that Indigenous Services Canada and Stats Canada were working together and by joining
data sets they would be able to track the socio-economic
experience of an individual Indian over the past 30 years. And I use the term Indian, status Indian, under the Indian Act 6020038001.
Ktunaxa that's really the only label that's culturally appropriate, so they can call me Indigenous, Aboriginal, Native, First Nations, whatever else
they've been calling me, but really Ktunaxa is the only one that is culturally appropriate in my worldview.
And so I get afraid when I think about the use of data without my informed knowledge or consent.
And I fear that we're facing not just Big Brother, but the whopping granddaddy of invasivity. We're seeing our privileges and our privacy
being restricted by accesses with digital codes and passwords
and I'm starting to feel like I'm a digital slave. Like I don't get access to any privilege of society without paying for it.
I have to pay for a paper bill, i'm expected to have an account to do all my banking and everything online and I have to pay for it, if I don't.
And that's just so that they can get more data on me, that they can throw a few cookies my way, and the next thing I know there
I got another ad is popped up. And so I asked myself:
Are we really thinking about what we're doing when we're bringing artificial intelligence into the room? And are we doing these things
from this point of ease to make life easier or make somebody else richer?
Are we thinking about what we're doing to and for our grandchildren, our great grandchildren and those that are to come?
I worry about what's happening to the human emotion, and in my world I was taught that our intellect is here, that are spirit is here in our heart.
That our emotions are in our stomach and that the physical body wraps it all together and have those energies communicate with one another.
And I see what's happening as we're being fed this intellectual fodder that's not necessarily connecting to our hearts,
or maybe it is, or maybe our hearts have been removed and it's connecting directly to our emotion, but whatever's going on, I don't feel good about it.
Yes, I appreciate being able to access knowledge quickly, but is that the knowledge I want? Is that the truth? i'm not sure anymore.
Not to say that data is not a useful thing and the connectivity that's going on is not useful. Our people have been disconnected from
their home identity, their identities in general.
And so data, and data sovereignty, and these information systems, and various platforms, can be used to reconnect people
to re-empower people and bring voice back. But as my people said:
We got to know that use of technology is fine, but a tool can also be a weapon.
And so we've got to be care, take care and be careful, as we move these things out into the world.
In Canada, there are 89 distinct Indigenous nations. 89 linguistic identities existing right now (Speaking Ktunaxa).
We speak the Ktunaxa language, it's an isolated language it's related to no other language in the world. Where in Canada, there are 11
Indigenous language families, the Ktunaxa stand alone as one of those Indigenous language families.
And our identity has been gnawed away at, and chewed away at, so we almost don't exist anymore.
And so it's so important to give recognition to each of those individual nation groups to honor those languages and the knowledge and the
technologies that go along with those knowledges.
And so, when I think about the grants that are available for media projects etc.
I think it would be good for the nations to actually be privileged to receive some of those monies to be able to then identify
their own citizens without any question.
Who, the people are that should be accessing the grants, because even again, like we've heard certain people putting a label on themselves to get a grant.
And then later that label is questioned. So let's empower the nations to be nations again, to control our identities, to be
those strong healthy citizens that we envision in the future.
Archaeological evidence says my people have been in our territory for over 10,000 years, we've always had government, we've always used
data, we've always made informed decisions.
We had a Duck Chief, a Deer Chief, a War Chief, mens and women's societies. Our women owned the (inaudible).
What did the colonizers bring to us, "Man you own your wife, she's your property, you dispose of her if you care". Property law was
where marriage was relocated.
We have very different belief systems, very different values, and unless we can figure out what Canadian values are now
because I'm not sure what they are.
I'm not sure whether we should be advancing these things, these policies, these privileges without having those deep conversations.
Values clashes are real.
And since contact, we've seen what that value clash has done to Indigenous women and girls. We're still living it. The Indian act is still
discriminating. So let's be cautious about our use of technology and even about our use of words.
And for me, getting older, as a grandmotherthat I am. I so much appreciate that our young people are becoming savvy in today's world
and the technology of today.
But they're also grounded in their worldview. They're using the tools of today to advance their interest and the beliefs that we have.
And hopefully together these knowledges will help to create that future that we all envision, where we have healthy land.
My people believe that everything has a spirit, everything, not just humans. Not just trees and animals, but the rocks everything.
And so, be careful how we use things because that spirit is unknown, sometimes. And it can be brought to life, given the right environments.
And so, Indigenous rights are communal, they don't belong to individuals, but individuals assert those rights.
And so, recognizing that the control of intellectual property, and even the ownership of intellectual property, is not necessarily
acknowledged at this time with respect to Indigenous peoples intellectual property - our worldviews, our collective ownership,
and our necessity to ask for the right to do things, to ask for privilege, to seek privilege.
We've lost a lot of that because of the colonial pressures and the lateral violence and the scarcity of resources that we've been faced with.
But that deep deep deep sense of feeling, belonging, and knowledge of connectedness, it's there and we will bring it back,
we are nation rebuilding.
We are going back to bring forward. And Indigenous people are no longer settling for what the Federal Government said, to close the gap.
Close the gap. Which gap?
The gap between ourselves and Canadians? That's just assimilation being measured.
We want to close the gap between who we are and who we want to be in the future, each of those 88 unique Indigenous groups, 89
counting Metis, as a hybrid.
Post-colonial, post-contact nation, because the very concept of Metis as, of course, a bringing together of different groups with a
hybrid language and culture.
And so, acknowledging the difference between those that have inherent rights that go back thousands of years, and those that have
more current Aboriginal rights and rights that are forced to be honored, but there is a difference.
And so, as we move forward, it's so important that each one of those unique nations is given the recognition and now,
as the federal government is moving towards,
acknowledgement in full form of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, by looking to pass legislation in Canada.
I would hope that they are considering how important intellectual property ownership is to a nation.
Parle-vous Francais? I asked a federal colleague.
Of course, he said I'm French speaking Canadian. I said so, you understand how important languages is to the sense of identity,
the sense of belonging, and the sense of purpose.
I know how sovereignty is in Quebec.
So, as each one of us' nation starts to stand up, the recognition is there, but we also need to be resourced, in order to
do the work we know we need to do to rebuild, to reclaim.
And in British Columbia, we actually have UN DRIP law that's been passed. DRIP Act. The DRIP Act.
And that act acknowledges, of course, that they have to consider the diversity of the Indigenous people in British Columbia,
that they have to relate to the rights holders, as we move these concepts of recognition and hopefully some reconciliation forward.
And so, in getting ourselves ready for this work, Indigenous people across BC and across Canada have really been working collaboratively
to make best use of that collective energy. We know that divide and conquer has done a lot of damage to us,
and so rebuilding, reconnecting, reclaiming, and reconfiguring,
our energies to do the work we need is where we are right now.
And so, for the past 10 years almost now, I've been leading what's called the BC First Nations Data Governance Initiative, and again
that's because my nation has been asserting data sovereignty as an act of recognition.
And in doing that what we've done is we've created policy frameworks, we've created templates for different types of agreements,
we've created all kinds of papers, research papers, that have explored things like measuring the nation to nation relationship.
And those documents can be found on a website BCFNDGI.com, you see First Nations Data Governance Initiative dot com.
And that website includes other things besides just you know data conversations. It really does start to bring
conversations about humanity back to the table.
And so again when I think about the work we're doing here and how we're doing it,
we're not just doing it in BC, but BC First Nations leaders have pushed for and other nations have joined the call for
a national First Nations Data Governance strategy to be born.
And it has been drafted, and it has been tabled, and for those of you, like me in First Nations communities who watch the budget like it's
Christmas time to know whether we're going to get anything this year, I was elated to know that this year, the budget announcement
indicated that there will be millions of dollars coming for further development of an implementation of this data strategy.
Through which each nation will be achieving data sovereignty within their own worldview, that is our end goal.
And so, history has proven over time that morals change, mediums change, media changes, and as do the values of the society.
The full impact of contemporary media convergence is not well understood in the current era of five seconds of fame
quick to defame, a voice without name, no sense of shame.
And I am most concerned for the children's health, as it can be deeply impacted when they're traumatized in their developmental years.
Epigenetisists have proven that early childhood trauma, fetal or early childhood trauma, will result in disease later on in life,
if proven inflammatory disease. But now we look at the social media and what it's doing to our young people.
The numbers of people that are experiencing mental health issues, the numbers of suicides, the numbers of all these negative statistics have
driven up exponentially, as has the amount of
information technology, and the amount of information in general. And not just information, but opinions that are being pushed out them daily.
So let's bring our hearts and minds together as we consider the future, and in the Ktunaxa language, (Ktunaxa) means to think
and it literally means to bring your heart and mind together. Thank you.
MONIQUE MANATCH: Chi-miigwech Gwen. Thank you. I love - this is so amazing. I was looking up all these different things,
as you were speaking because I couldn't - your talk was full of resources and so full of really informative information, really important information
I really, I thank you, I thank you very much, miigwetch.
So next we're going to turn to Rob McMahon from the University of Alberta, he is an associate professor in the Masters of Arts and
Communications and Technology Program.
Prior to that position Rob worked as a Postdoctoral Researcher with the First Nations Innovation Project
at the University of New Brunswick. And he co-founded the First Mile Connectivity Consortium, a national non-profit association
of Indigenous technology organizations.
His research focuses on the development, adoption, and use of broadband and Internet technologies by rural, remote
Northern and Indigenous communities.
His approach involves working with communities to ensure that their voices are heard in all stages of research.
He and his partners are exploring ways to house project data and build research capacities and communities.
And are involved in efforts to contribute to digital policy and regulation. So we'll turn it over to you next, Rob.
ROB MCMAHON: Right, thank you and thank you so much for the privilege and opportunity to join this wonderful panel, wow.
Yah i'm just letting everything sink in, what an amazing group of speakers today. So I'm a non-Indigenous person too, I'm a white
first generation settler actually, my parents coming from Europe. My mom from Sweden, my dad from Wales.
And right now I'm working in treaty six territories, but I'm living in (inaudible) and Cowichan Tribe areas in Vancouver island.
And I'm working in different research policy and educational initiatives, and I'm very privileged to present here today on behalf of a whole group of people that I have the honor to work with.
of people that I have the honor to work with.
Through groups like the First Mile Connectivity Consortium. So i'll be talking about their work
in setting up and operating and building Internet systems. So I'm going to turn to sort of like the underlying infrastructures, the wires that
connect us, the wireless infrastructure, that kind of stuff.
And I also focus on some of the policy aspects, both the barriers and then maybe some proposals.
So, Dan and Mary Lou like what you were talking about in terms of you know you had all this work and you learn how to do it
in that Community radio context.
And I thought that was such an amazing story, and I just wanted to say the same thing is happening in communities on
the Internet side. So there's so many people who are
building their own infrastructures, operating it, maintaining it. And so I really want to highlight all of that work that I've really enjoyed
and have the privilege to learn about as a researcher.
So during COVID-19, we're seeing more activities are moving online, while at the same time, the pandemic is further
exposing long standing connectivity issues.
But of course as we've heard today, and we, we always hear that Indigenous peoples are asking important questions about who,
when, how, and why broadband is deployed in regions and communities, for a very long time.
Today I'll present some recommendations raised by Indigenous technology experts and organizations, and through discussions at the
annual Indigenous connectivity summit.
And I'll focus specifically on geographically rural and northern communities, many of which have small populations, sometimes fly-in communities.
Or winter roads. So there's a long history of diverse Indigenous governments, citizens, and organizations acting as producers, owners
and operators of digital infrastructures in these regions.
In First Nations contexts, KNet or the Kukuna network that means for everyone, everywhere.
Which is owned and operated by the (inaudible) Tribal Council in Northwest Ontario, it's been around since 1994,
the very early days of the Internet.
And it's still operating today connecting some 80 communities and operating their own mobile phone services through KNet mobile.
There's also local initiatives like a Mamawapowin Technology Society in Maskwacis, just one hour of Edmonton where young champion there
Bruce Buffalo is sharing his own connection and reaching people within the community who otherwise wouldn't be able to access
Internet services. Just one hour away from Edmonton.
In Inuit context the Tamaani network is a project of the Kativik Regional Government, and they're now to deploying fiber to the
home and undersea fiber optic cables, fixed wireless, and satellite links to 14 fly-in communities in Nunavut and Northern Quebec.
So these and many other successes present strong evidence that nonprofit Indigenous service providers are more than capable
of constructing and managing networks in some of canada's most challenging terrain.
And then, using them to deliver applications, including core public services like health and education.
So policy plays a role in supporting and enabling these Indigenous broadband initiatives.
But principles of broadband development operate differently in small population and geographically dispersed communities.
Competition threatens to undermine cooperation in low-resource environments. So rather than cooperating to support community
initiatives, competition encourages individuals and organizations to secure limited resources,
whether it's funding, whether its customers, whether it's access to support structures, like Hydro Poles to hang fiber optics or spectrum.
In a zero sum game, people are competing with each other.
Companies are competing for these resources. So rather than competition, there's an opportunity to provide support to the
Indigenous connectivity organizations that exist to serve the needs of their nations and communities.
So after initial capital investment and ongoing operational supports, which I'll note are the same supports the private sector organizations
asked to receive in these contexts, nonprofit organizations can reinvest any surplus revenues back into the community.
So rather than go towards shareholder profits, surplus revenues might be used for activities like deploying or updating infrastructure,
improving the quality of service, lowering prices for users, or supporting other projects that are decided on by the Community owners.
As we've heard today, their work also supports Indigenous sovereignty over connectivity infrastructure and services,
and the associated applications and platforms.
So a whole community approach, such as the developed by Susan O'Donnell and Brian Beaton,
provides a holistic broadband planning framework that considers residents and households, community institutions,
or so-called anchor tenants, these are the big users of bandwidth that help make these types of community owned
operation sustainable over time. So the health centers, the schools,
all these different areas that Indigenous nations are delivering services to their citizens, the regional telecommunications
transport infrastructure is that connect multiple communities, and then the surrounding lands, waters, and space reflecting
environmental considerations.
Secondly, i'll turn to the measurement of connectivity.
So mapping initiatives are important for guiding the development of funding programs and how we deploy spectrum licenses.
As well as for monitoring and measuring their impacts.
And I'll note that in 2018, the office of the auditor general of Canada pointed out limitations of existing measurement approaches
to connectivity in what they call rural and remote regions.
So generally, there's very limited publicly available data in many smaller, northern, rural communities. Places like Paulatuk and (inaudible) and NWT.
Criticisms have also been raised regarding the mapping methodologies used. So, for example, if a single point of connection is shown
as connected in a 25-kilometer hexagon, that area that whole area is considered connected.
There's also issues with the maps used to determine spectrum licenses. So many of these spectrum licenses cover very large areas and might include one or two urban centers, along with many smaller towns.
But if a few urban centers are shared, the deployment requirements associated with the spectrum licenses may be considered
as being met, so that, in turn, leaves many smaller geographically rural areas without service.
There's also very limited data available on metrics like affordability or quality of service or experience, how people actually experience their connection.
Or the availability of dark fiber or conduit that is already built and people may or may not be using it,
why not actually map and use these assets that may be available.
So in Canada, I said and CRTC ecognize these data limitations and provide some mechanisms to check existing maps
and these might be expanded in the areas noted earlier.
Other supports might include resources for people living in rural regions to contribute community-source data,
and doing so to help sort of monitor this type of data.
So third i'll talk about funding criteria and access to funding mechanisms.
So funding for broadband deployment and operations in these areas should be treated separately, than funding in urban areas,
the contexts are very different.
So funding should be dispersed in a manner that's responsive to proposals that are generated by, or in close consultation with
Indigenous communities and ten nonprofits service providers, based in operating in affected regions.
Specifically proposal-based funding models allow for more customized approaches and factors that better reflect
the desires and context of Indigenous nations and communities.
So, for example, they could help address the access divides inside communities by ensuring equitable deployment of connectivity to all
households and organizations.
Requests that applicants to the funds provide demonstrated evidence of community consultation and tangible benefits like training
and employment for local residents.
Integration with anchor tenants like local school health centers and so on that provide economies of scale and cost savings.
And then recognition of cultural language and environmental requirements identified by communities and supporting affordability
goals for when people actually have purchased their service.
Non-profit organizations located in Indigenous communities may require alternative financing supports in cases where they may face
structural barriers. So,
while organizations, based on reserve face barriers using on reserve assets as collateral when they're attempting to receive and secure loans.
There is a process in place whereby a First Nations been and can do that. And then we're also seeing some improvements so, for example,
the Canada Infrastructure Bank actually launched a new fund in March that non for profit organizations can access.
So forth, just technological consideration, so the characteristics of the connectivity technologies.
Regional backhaul fiber optic networks, which are essential for connectivity, these are the regional networks that the communities will connect to
So you have the connectivity inside a community, but of course they connect to regional networks as well to to access the broader Internet.
These must be made open access and the definition of what open access is must be made clear it's really hard to track and follow and interpret what that is.
The pricing of wholesale bandwidth, so if you have a local community organization that is purchasing bandwidth from these larger entities,
That should be public, that should be regulated in cases where the backhaul, the transport networks, have been built through publicly subsidized funds.
Especially when cases where competition is not in place to help manage costs. So price regulation is more efficient than just over building
more transport areas, especially in northern regions where it's so expensive and difficult to do so.
There should be more investment and Internet exchange points in northern Indigenous areas that help support connections and lower
costs and also provide environmental benefits by reducing reliance on far away cloud services and data centers.
So, for example, there's a proposal underway to build an Arctic Internet exchange involving IXPs in Iqualuit, Nunavut and Labrador city.
So, turning to spectrum, some mobile carriers are warehousing spectrum, so they own it without deploying it and there are limited
opportunities for Indigenous groups to lease that and offer services to their citizens.
So, to improve access we may consider solutions like rural, remote broadband systems policy, has been documented by Dr Greg Taylor or
Indigenous spectrum licenses, such as those provided to tribal entities in the US.
So in the US, the FCC set up a tribal priority window for a band of 2.5 gigahertz spectrum.
Which is suitable for both mobile coverage and fixed point to point uses, and this program allowed for Native American communities and
rural areas to directly access an assigned spectrum over their territories.
So I took a look at their tribal priority window from February to September 2020 and counted 350 applications. So, some
applications, some groups had more than one application, but that demonstrates the demand and interest in this type of program down south.
The last thing I'll mention with technology is satellite licensed conditions. So in the past, Indigenous
nonprofit telecommunications providers serving rural and northern communities, were able to access public benefits satellite capacity
as a condition of the orbital licenses required to launch satellites.
And so proposals for launching these constellations, Starlink etc.,
they've been released by multiple parties, some supported through several hundred million dollars of public funding, so could an
amount of reserve capacity on these satellite systems be made available to nonprofit Indigenous providers.
initiatives can also support small-scale deployments led by communities as well, so there's local mesh networks such as work being
set up, to set up a mesh network in Winnipegs north end.
So not only the Community built mesh networks help fill connectivity gaps in a variety of contexts, including urban context,
they also support digital literacy as participants gain better understanding of connectivity infrastructure and how the Internet works.
So finally, can I just say - actually I can finish now if you like?
MONIQUE: If you just want to give a quick wrap up that'd be great, thanks.
ROB MCMAHON: Sure, yes, my last point was just addressing barriers around our participation.
So just a point that on March 16, there was a virtual National Day of Action for affordable Internet but many people in rural and northern
communities couldn't participate due to slow and expensive Internet so I'll just end with that it's so ironic that
that connectivity impacts, the ability of people in these communities to actually participate in conversations about how to address
that issue. So that's my final point, so thank you so much for the opportunity to present.
MONIQUE: I had no idea, oh I'm glad they're putting some links in for some of the initiatives you just said I had no idea,
there were so many initiatives. I remember Knet, I'm, yeah it's been around for a long time and it's been - it's an amazing resource for the Indig Community.
So I'd like to turn it over to Jesse Wente.
So I'm just going to give a brief bio.
Jesse is an Anishinaabe writer, broadcaster, and speaker and arts leader.
He was born and raised in Toronto, and I want to know from where because I was also born and raised in Toronto, but we'll get to that
his family comes from Chicago and Serpent River, he's been known for more than two decades as the columnist for CBC radio morning.
For CBC radio, metro morning.
Jesse was with the Toronto International Film Festival for 11 years. The last seven as the director of film programs at the TIFF bell lightbox.
He's an outspoken advocate for Indigenous rights, and at the moment he's the Chai,r Board of Directors, President for Canada Council
for the arts and the executive director for Indigenous Screen Office. I'm going to turn it over to you Jesse, miigwetch.
JESSE WENTE: Oh thank you so much, and I've just been trying to soak it all in. What,
What incredible knowledge and experience by the fellow panelists, thank you Monique for including me with these - Gwen and the Smokes
these are powerful people.
So yeah, miigwetch for having me.
I won't bog us down, I don't have a big presentation
to make, I love the story that Rob just told about Internet accessibility, this is something that I mentioned a walk to the government
that i'll give you another anecdote.
When speaking with folks from Nunavut,
the joke up there was if they wanted to have a movie night they had to plan in advance and start the week before downloading the movie
it would take a week to download the movie and then they could show it.
And you know the point I make to the government is that, as we try to migrate all of our everything, including everything we've done the last
year, to online presence that will be inequity, since we don't have an equitable
broadband ecosystem currently, by migrating all of the services to that system, you will inevitably end up with inequalities embedded in delivering those
services. And this is, you know, even in - when I think of ISO operations, we're thinking around our next funding round,
and of course it's online, but we also can literally mail you something in case you you can't use Internet.
And I think it's important for policymakers to realize like you can't just imagine that everyone is along the southern border,
and I think too often in Canada, when it comes to cultural and digital infrastructure policy,
All of the folks who are making the decisions, all of the metrics that are being considered are entirely along the southern border of
Canada, and I think one of the pieces of knowledge that was shared to me that has really informed the way I think around implementation
of policy in Canada,
or what is now called Canada, is that,
Colonial visions sees Canada is an East to West place, but that is a misreading of the land.
This is a North to South place, and what I mean by that is the cultural differences between East and West are actually fairly small,
the cultural differences between South and North, though, are quite dramatic.
And so, when we consider policy, and because the East to West is all along the southern border,
We tend to think of it as well, we need to think of the maritimes and we need to think of the west coast and we forget that well
there's this huge vast territory up there.
For when it comes to First Nations, Metis, and Inuit initiatives, the folks in the norths of Canada tend to
be living more traditional lives, for the most part, or often are. They're often in
language majority, Indigenous language majority communities. Very different than what we face in the south and so,
you know, even if you're considering delivering services into a place like that well you better have language speakers.
And again, most of our infrastructure and federal departments do not have that necessarily, they concentrate French and English.
But I can just say from our experience on the Canada Council, that doesn't work up north. You need to you need to speak the languages of the people from there.
So, I think it was important, we consider all of those readings and and really disconnect our colonial worldview of this place,
in order to enact equitable policy. Because, in terms of often too much the metrics that we base on even the success policy
is based on how it reaches just this small, the majority of the population, but a very small geographical bandwidth.
And, and we have to acknowledge that that access is now an issue of democracy, and not just one of convenience.
That inequitable broadband or digital access, access to data, access to information,
now is a - should be treated, I would argue, more like a utility than it should be as a convenience. Meaning that -
and granted, you know, as First Nations people, we understand that the Government of Canada has had difficulty delivering even
the most basic utilities to all of our communities in an effective manner.
That you know we have ongoing drinking water issues, that's a utility, and it hasn't been -
but just like water has become, or what has always been, you know, a function of our existence,
in our ability to engage in society, engage in governance, engage in these things, Internet has become that. We rely on it. If -
We wouldn't be doing this right now, if it wasn't for this infrastructure. And so,
And if we're honest,
you know the consolidation that we're - that is actively happening in the major players in the Canadian market will not ultimately benefit,
certainly not Indigenous communities,
are unlikely to benefit most of Canadians, so I do think we have to look at policy alternatives, and that may include, you know when
considering that may include treating these things as more of utility. And I think you know what part of what I always talk about is,
Regardless of whether these companies are actually
signed treaty, they are part of treaty, they exist on lands that are governed by treaties about the sharing of resources, at least in
my territory, I know out West there's far less treaties, but here -
And yet we don't treat those resources in the same way as others, and I think we need to start doing that and so, if you've laid
high, you know, fiber optic line across Canada,
Well that's all in Indigenous territory and as a profiting from Indigenous lands, and thus we should be ensuring that Indigenous people
have equitable and self-determined access
to those same things, otherwise pretending that we live in - we're just pretending we live in a democracy, we're not actually in one that
is equal, and you know, frankly, that's sort of a very Canadian thing is to pretend that that's what we're doing.
So I think I'll stop there, but I just, I'm so appreciative of all of this and making notes and it's just so impressive and I'm so thankful to be here.
So, miigwetch.
MONIQUE: Miigwetch Jesse, thank you.
Yeah, when you're talking about the southern border, my community is only three hours northeast of Ottawa, Barrier Lake
well it's known as Rapid Lake, and they don't have, they have
very little Internet, even the cell service, you have to go stand by the school and hold your mouth right, you know,
or people would have to get satellite dishes, they have it for the band office but it's very limited, and this is three hours from Ottawa
from our national capital.
JESSE WENTE: Yeah we're not even talking particularly North, like that's that's not even North. That's like I don't know what that is that's still the South.
MONIQUE: It's a suburb of Ottawa!
JESSE: Still the South and you know, the thing is when I talked about it, you know, because obviously we advocated from a screen sector initiative.
But it constricts you in all ways right, like you, can't be a participant in producing content where you don't have access,
you also can't be a consumer, like it doesn't actually work for either side of what their plan is, it prevents access in all ways. And so-
And listen, what I would say is that it makes a Community search for alternatives, you know. The Indigenous Screen Office doesn't exist
because the existing agencies were doing a good job.
Right it exists because our Community needed an alternative to work better for them than those existing things. And so,
If we're not going to get effective Internet from the existing providers, guess what, the Community's ultimately will figure this out on their own
and what my thing is like, that's what I want! So how can I help empower that exact thing, because I do
think communities should figure this out on their own and what Canada should be doing is letting them and not - and instead we're
wrapped up with these huge multi billion dollar things, like you know-
I mentioned this, because it's one of my favorite stats, but I think Canada has like the highest cost data in the world.
Like if you think about that, that's absurd! We've allowed that to happen, that is not a natural occurrence that is a market regulation issue.
And we've allowed monopolies to occur, and monopolies have never, ever, as far as I can remember in my understanding of capitalist
economies have never really worked, that they're actually against-
you're not supposed to have monopolies, it's supposed to be competition and yet here we are that's what we are in Canada and
it's likely we're about to prove another one that is going to be hugely damaging, I think, to the consumer,
and none of those companies have shown a willingness to actually deliver great Internet, on a couple occasions I know some communities
have worked with them to get Internet there, but
it's on a community-community basis, and that requires a different solution than this piecemeal thing that we're doing right now.
Anyway, I'll be quiet.
MONIQUE: No, the things you're saying, well, it makes me wonder, too, I mean the idea of Indigenous communities, and I'm
putting this out there to everybody, developing their own solutions to the Internet or lack of accessibility, because,
in my Community, there was like an 85% language retention, it was huge because they were isolated because they live off the land.
With the Internet, with the advent of the Internet, the younger generation are no longer speaking the language,
and they're trying to take all these drastic measures to ensure that that language is still
being learned by the kids, so if that's the kind of impact that it has on Community, then what responsibility do communities have?
To ensure that there is access, but access that allows for the retention of culture and language.
GWEN PHILLIPS: You know there's something that I think has to be understood here too, that Indigenous people belong to nations,
and some people live in communities, but not all, and we use this term Community like it's some catch all for everything now.
Just like the term First Nation, you can live on a First Nation, you can be a First nation.
So I think it's really important to really put the context, like I say in place and there's Indigenous governing bodies that got to be funded
as Indigenous governing bodies to ensure that they're providing
their citizens with basic human needs - or to meet the human needs, and now we're almost looking at human rights
as having Internet access, as a human right.
When you can't get food or you can't get anything else if you don't have it.
You know it's a scary thing, and yes I've been visitingup North but I live in the South and
different issues, similar issues, different issues, some are because of geospatial location and some are just because of political will.
So absolutely, I think that there's there's discussions to have, but the first and the most important thing.
is to give recognition that we are governing, we do have governing bodies that need to be empowered and funded, so we can participate.
Sure just devolve all the problems to us, with no resources - that doesn't solve anything.
So my nation had to build our own broadband system, and I love the work that Knet did, Brian Beaton told us a beautiful story about
15 years ago, maybe it was, about when they were doing some - bringing
fiber in and they left a role of cable behind and they said, this is as far as a signal will go and then I think a year or so later they went to
connect the cable, but then local folks they strung more!
Strung more, and it carried the signal and extra I don't know, 100 kilometers or some craziness, right. So yeah, thank you for this opportunity.
MONIQUE: Chi-miigwech, and I think you're right, Internet is an essential service.
It's essential, and so, how do we - we only got a couple of minutes but I'm interested to hear what people just quickly say
So, how do we - what's the next steps, where do we go from here?
How do you see this panning out. I know it's a big question for two minutes.
GWEN PHILLIPS: Like I say our data strategy hopefully has been to address some of these things, and we see it, not just the data,
but you also have the connectivity components that got to be dealt with as well, right at the same time.
MONIQUE: Dan and Mary Lou, what do you think?
DAN SMOKE: I think that the communication between the generations, has to be
reclaimed in a way that language is very important, language, we have to bring back the language, because in the language our
culture, our identity is there, and so that's so vitally important right now, as you say, young people are losing it in Rapid Lake.
So you know that's so important, and I think that our young people, I think I have great hope with young people, because I know that
when I when I was growing up,
I saw the look my grandparents eyes, you know that they saw something that I was going to experience, and I,
and I have, I've experienced it and i'm still experiencing it.
You know, and I would like to see that in our grandchildren, I would like to see that and it's up to me,it's up to us to
make sure that that happens. And I think collectively we're, if we're all of the same mind, I think we can do it.
MONIQUE: Thank you, miigwetch. How about you, Rob?
ROB MCMAHON: Yeah, I don't have much more to add just to say that I mean the evidence is there, people are already doing
this work, and I think it's about
making sure that the policies and regulations support the work that's already being done and led by the communities.
So all the information, all the work and projects we need is underway, it's just how to how can it be better recognized and supported.
MONIQUE: Terrific and Jesse, I'll leave the last word to you.
JESSE WENTE: Yeah I would just very quickly say, I mean we're seeing the Federal Government take very baby steps into investing
in the content creation side of Indigenous things.
I would like to see an enormous leap on the infrastructure investment side, like invest in the cables and by that I mean
As Gwen said, give our existing national governing bodies the resources to just build it ourselves.
View this as an economic driver for the entire nation, not just ours, but it will be for everyone, and that equitable access will only
strengthen Canada, not weaken it, and that should be a goal that we can all share.
So that's, I would like to, of course, see more have more support from the content side as well, but I think that's coming.
But I would love to see very specific support for the infrastructure side as Gwen suggests.
You can't have one without the other, it's foolish to think you can fund the content if you're not also funding the system's free will,
for people, the ability to create it and and consume it.
MONIQUE: Miigwetch. Well, thank you to everyone we've just
It's already over.
I am sad it's over, because there's just all these things I want to ask in all these places, I want to go with this conversation.
So, thank you very much, Dan, Mary Lou, Gwen, Rob, Jesse. Thank you so much, and thanks to Sara and everybody for putting
this conference together and helping to organize this panel.
And I think the communication, the conversation does need to continue and I'm sure that we can find ways to do that.
So, chii-miigwetch everybody, and I hope you have a good day. Thank you.